In this episode, we conclude the interview and explore the ability of SM2 to be able to detect the sentiment and tonality of a social media mention as it is picked up by SM2 and how the tool can be ‘educated’ to provide better and more consistent results. 

Can the computer really understand tone and sentiment though? As Aaron has said in a previous episode, it’s more of an art than a science right now, but that is primarily because the nuances of human communications are more subtle than the system can understand. 

At one point, Mike references the Turing Test, as an example of the kind of complexity a fully automated assessment of tonality and sentiment would require.  The Turing Test was designed back in the 50’s to assess whether or not a human could detect the difference between the projected presence of a computer vs. a human during an interaction.  As a science fiction buff, I relate it to the kind of challenge I see in Ray Kurzweil’s impending Singularity – according to Ray, the ability may be as not be far off as many think.  In the context of the conversation with Mike and Aaron, we all agree that it is a complication that drives the need for human intervention in the monitoring process.

The topic of Social Media Optimization (SMO) comes up relative to the ROI and how it drives ROI.  Aaron explores the SMO concept as developed by Rohit Bhargava on Influential Marketing Blog, where Rohit presented 5 rules of SMO. 

Here are the five that Rohit cites in his original post –

1. Increase linkability
2. Make tagging and bookmarking easy
3. Reward inbound links
4. Help your content travel out
5. Encourage mashup

Since the original post, the ‘rules’ have been expanded to more than a dozen with input from the likes of Jeremiah Owyang / Altimeter Group and other great minds in the realm of social media marketing and optimization. 

Aaron observes that these kind of characteristics are very different than 10-15 years ago when early bloggers attempted to make their content proprietary and contain where and when it was re-posted. 

We revisit the need to first establish a strategy before you pursue tactics and Mike encourages a process that establishes knowing what you are trying to do first is part of a structure that encourages identifying activities and identifying influencers and audiences that are receptive to your content.  We wrap up with information how to connect with Alterian (and they are listening all the time BTW, the RT’s by the Alterian team are really a treat – thanks you guys!). 

In the summary, Mike shares an anecdote from the merger / acquisition process.  When the board chairman asked why they needed to get involved with social media, Mike showed him how social media was already acting on an existing brand of another company the chairman was involved in and how that was the ‘ah-ha’ moment for him.

Play / Download Aaron Newman and Mike Talbot of Alterian Episode 6 Podcast Here

To support the effort in uncovering the ROI question in social media, we’ve set up a Fan Page at Facebook, a LinkedIn Group, a Google Wave and a special discussion group on the Social Media Bible Ning site.

Come join us and let us know what the pressing issues are in your efforts to determine an ROI in your social media presence.

Here are links to the previous episodes in this series -

• Episode 1 – What to Consider When Trying to Measure ROI / Hard and Soft Investments
• Episode 2 – Do Not Be Afraid To Measure Social Media; You May Be Better Than You Know
• Episode 3 – Attributes of a Measure in Social Media
• Episode 4 – Ad equivalence as a metric in social media
• Episode 5 – Assessing Sentimentality and Tonality in social media

Transcript and Extended Recording

Transcript of the original recording

All six (6) Episodes in one file / recording for download or to listen to

This is the final post in the interview with Aaron Newman and Mike Talbot of Alterian.

Guy and I both would like to thank Aaron and Mike for their time and willingness to meet and share their perspective on the topic.  Above are links to material related to the interview that you may find useful; a transcript of the discussion and the entire conversation in one extended recording.

We’re very interested in your perspective on the topic and, if you have a favored presenter or person who can add to the conversation, please let us know – we’re looking to interview him / her and put it up here!

Thank you again to you our listeners – hope you enjoyed the effort and work we put into it!

About the Podcast, Transcript and Credit For Where Credit is Due – This transcript was developed from an interview held November 30, 2009 between Aaron Newman, Mike Talbot, Guy Powell and Steven Groves.

The podcast interview was recorded at FreeConferenceCall.com, downloaded and processes in Audicity, downloaded from SourceForge with ‘4toFloor.wav’ music loop from member ‘Rooks’ and posted at SoundSnap.com.

Introduction voice is Cynthia Propst / TSMB Media, LLC.

The transcript provided by Cynthia Propst / TSMB Media, LLC.

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 4
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 1
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 5

In this episode of the ROI of Social Media Series, we explore the question of assessing Sentimentality and Tonality in social media, an area that as Aaron reminds us, is still more of an art than a science.

The process of establishing an automated model in the SM2 product however can yield useful and relevant results.  Aaron and Mike suggest that a company can achieve some pretty reasonable results at the macro level, but we are just not at a per comment or micro level, which is why at this point of creating relevant metrics there is a human component that the computer cannot understand – yet.  There is a role for people in the effort and there is a role for technology.

Getting the general direction however is more than possible and by comparing a month by month a business can get a great sense of trends and velocity.  How do you get a sense of progress however?  Mike unveils that SM2 maintains a storehouse that can be used for baseline comparisons – it’s a capability that SM2 users have had available to them for quite some time.

Play / Download Mike Talbot / Aaron Newman Episode 5 Podcast Here

To support our efforts in uncovering the ROI in Social Media, we’ve established a presence in a number of locations; you can select the one that’s right for you!  The  Fan Page at Facebook, our LinkedIn Group, and a special Discussion Group on the Social Media Bible Ning site. Come join us and let us know what the issues are in your efforts to determine an ROI in your social media presence.

Here are links to the previous episodes in this series -

• Episode 1 – What to Consider When Trying to Measure ROI / Hard and Soft Investments
• Episode 2 – Do Not Be Afraid To Measure Social Media; You May Be Better Than You Know
• Episode 3 – Attributes of a Measure in Social Media
• Episode 4 – Ad equivalence as a metric in social media

Image courtesy of NestedUniverse.net

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 4
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 1
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 3

A commonly used metric is called ‘Advertising Value Equivalence’ which attempts to establish a value for a news article or print interview by comparing the value of the article to an advertisement, an ad equivalent. (note – it is not uncommon to see this term alternately used as “Equivalent Advertising Value” or abbreviated as some combination of the letters i.e.; ‘EAV’, ‘AEV’, ‘AVE’, etc.)

In this episode, Guy poses the question about using ad equivalence as a metric in social media.  Aaron responds and cites how we’ve become almost immune to a broadcast media message anymore and that we, as a culture, are seeking more pertinent input from the community.

Social Media is at it’s core a ‘word-of-mouth’ tactic, but the technology underpinnings have extended the community to a global scope.  Andrew cites that the trust level of the community has evolved to be a more significant influencer than the marketing message constructed by the marketer.

Mike Talbot goes on to say that marketing departments are getting the message however and beginning to focus on social media as a marketing tool in the over all mix.

Play / Download Mike Talbot / Aaron Newman Episode 4 Podcast Here

To support our efforts in uncovering the ROI in Social Media, we’ve established a presence in a number of locations; you can select the one that’s right for you!  The   Fan Page at Facebook, our LinkedIn Group, and a special Discussion Group on the Social Media Bible Ning site. Come join us and let us know what the issues are in your efforts to determine an ROI in your social media presence.

Here are links to the previous segments in this series -

• Episode 1 – What to Consider When Trying to Measure ROI / Hard and Soft Investments
• Episode 2 – Do Not Be Afraid To Measure Social Media; You May Be Better Than You Know
• Episode 3 – Attributes of a Measure in Social Media

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 1
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 5
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 3

If social media is going to be an additional tool in the marketers toolbox, the simple mention of the brand will have some value to it – repeated mentions by the same person might have you classify them as an ‘Brand Advocate’ and worthy of special treatment, depending on what they say of course.

Aaron provides these four attributes to help assess the value of a social media mention and discusses them in-depth -

• • Authority,
  • discoverability,
  • life time, and
  • sentiment

Aaron reiterates again that measurement is is still more of an art vs. a science today.

Mike goes further though and states that social media monitoring is not just about monitoring the campaign interactions.  There is a lot of value in being able to measure and read an unguarded, honest commentary stream to understand how a customer views the brand.

In this series so far, Mike and Aaron are uncovering great tips on the process of monitoring a social media presence – a few more episodes ahead of us before the Holiday!

Play / Download Mike Talbot / Aaron Newman Episode 3 Podcast Here

To support the effort in uncovering the ROI question in social media, we’ve set up a Fan Page at Facebook, a LinkedIn Group, a Google Wave and a special discussion group on the Social Media Bible Ning site.

Come join us and let us know what the pressing issues are in your efforts to determine an ROI in your social media presence.

Here are links to the previous segments in this series -

Episode 1 – What to Consider When Trying to Measure ROI / Hard and Soft Investments

Episode 2 – Do Not Be Afraid To Measure Social Media; You May Be Better Than You Know

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 4
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 1
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 5

These are words that social media specialist and consultants hear from business people exploring as to why they should make ANY investment in social media.  It’s a fair question.

I also hear often enough a comment that goes something like this – (for a large business) “…our marketing intern just opened us up a Twitter account.  We’re going to see how that goes before we invest anything else”, or (for a small business) “…my <insert young family person pronoun here> has a Facebook account, I think they can handle that for us.”

When I hear those objections to creating a well considered social media strategy, I explore a bit further and see if those positions have been adopted because they really do not understand where social media is going – in which case I offer education in the form of a copy of The Social Media Bible, the Ning website, webinar offerings or consulting – if they do not have a budget for education / strategy / consulting, I begin to look at my watch and listen for the opportunity to end the meeting and head out for door.

I’d love to take the time to convince them otherwise and convert them to be believers in the power of a social media presence, but there are many prospects who do see the power and eagerly want to invest – I am blessed that I get to work with some and there is a growing number of them everyday.

In this episode, Guy takes over the questioning and asks about the perspective that many social media professionals are still suggesting you cannot measure social media, much less the ROI of the effort, but he asks ‘what do you measure?’

Aaron Newman (VP Social Media Marketing of Alterian) offers up the often recited Red Herring (yes, I know there is a red fox in the picture, not a herring – do you know why?) response of ‘Why are you trying to measure the impact of social media? Do you measure the ROI of a telephone?’ but he quickly comes down firmly on the side of the discussion that says you can show an ROI, but he suggests it is more of an art form than a science.  Mike talbot (CTO, co-founder of Alterian) adds that many social media professionals are afraid to measure ROI of their social media effort, primarily because they are afraid that it will not show a positive result and they will lose funding of whatever project / department they are running – Mike suggests that there is another way to approach social media ROI.

Play / Download Mike Talbot / Aaron Newman Episode 2 Podcast Here

To support the effort in uncovering the ROI question in social media, we’ve set up a Fan Page at Facebook, a LinkedIn Group, a Google Wave and a special discussion group on the Social Media Bible Ning site.

Come join us and let us know what the pressing issues are in your efforts to determine an ROI in your social media presence.

Here are links to the previous segments in this series -

Episode 1 – What to Consider When Trying to Measure ROI / Hard and Soft Investments

Image courtesy of arudhio / Flickr

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 4
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 1
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 3

We’re doing this interview to explore how the social media industry views social media ROI and whether or not it is a measurable function.  Guy Powell, my collaborator in the podcast, is the author of ‘Marketing Calculator: measuring and managing the return on marketing investment’, who has made a study of the ROI question in marketing and now, in collaboration with yours truly, is bringing his knowledge to the question of ROI in Social Media.

What Guy and I are finding in our interactions is that the ROI of the two worlds, traditional marketing and social media marketing, are still very different.  We are exploring the question with an open mind, documenting our findings, producing content for you our audience and as we can, we’ll share our conclusions about this burgeoning subject.

The interview was long and as is a favorite process of mine, I divide the complete interview down into more digestible episodes, each around 5 to 10 minutes each.

In this episode we open with the question ‘What factors do you consider when it comes to social media ROI?’

There is a lot more to the answer than is apparent in this episode, but Aaron and Mike are both suggesting that you really need to craft a strategy before you enter into social media.  Once you do, you can establish result measures, albeit the measures may be both qualitative vs. quantitative (hard and soft).

Aaron and Mike both point out that there are also hard cost and soft costs.  We hear that most of social medias hard costs are staff and the associated burden of staff and likewise there are hard and soft benefits.  Soft benefits include tough to measure elements such as corporate goodwill.

The interview has a few pops and cracks in it, due to a technical problem (the loose nut on the other side of the keyboard it turns out) but it is very listenable.

From guy and myself, we hope you enjoy the information and the work we are doing to uncover the ROI of Social Media!

Play / Download Mike Talbot / Aaron Newman Episode 1 Podcast Here

Related posts:

• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 4
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 5
• The ROI of Social Media Series – Mike Talbot and Aaron Newman / Alterian SM2 – Episode 3